AS THINGS STAND AT DECEMBER 2011

This is the current starting point of investigations into Ronald Harold Herbert (my father) antecedents.

Focus is at present on the James Broadbent Herberts (Senior and Junior – father and son had the same name) because they are the most likely oldest links in the chain discovered to date. It seems that the father of James Broadbent Herbert Senior could be Thomas Herbert of Woolwich Kent. His wife’s name was Lucy. But to date only one baptism of a Herbert was found at St Mary Magdalene Woolwich in the period 1800 -1812. This was 1804 – George Archibald son of Thomas and Lucy. George Archibald may have been a sibling of James Broadbent.

The information to date about James Broadbent Herbert Senior is:

1. Born about 1806 in Woolwich Kent. There is some doubt about the date because the various census results and the death certificate show variations:

a. 1841 census shows age 30 meaning a birth year of about 1811;

b. 1851 census shows age 44 meaning a birth year of about 1807;

c. death certificate shows age 59 meaning a birth year of about 1799

2. Married 7 June 1833 in Christchurch Hunter St Liverpool

3. Died 21 December 1858 in 49 Beau Street St Martin Liverpool

4. His wife’s maiden name was Mary Jane Hilton she

a. Was born about 1806 in Liverpool

b. Died on 23 April 1879 in 1 Gladstone Rd Bolton cum Beacombe Wallasey at the age of 73

5. JBH Senior appears in the census as either 'editor' or 'editor and publisher' until his death where his death notice shows him to be a coal merchant. Two notices from newspapers might throw some light on this.

The first is in London Gazette December 1851

NOTICE is hereby given, that the Partnership heretofore subsisting between us the undersigned, Thomas Baines and James Broadbent Herbert, as Proprietors and Publishers of the Liverpool Times, and also General Printers and Stationers, under the firm of Baines and Herbert, at Liverpool, in the county of Lancaster, is this day dissolved by mutual consent. All debts owing by or to the said late partnership will be paid and received respectively by the said Thomas Baines.-Witness our hands this 31st day of December 1851. Thomas Baines. James Broadbent Herbert.

The second in The London Gazette, October 24, 1856.

HENRY JAMES PERRY, Esq., one of Her Majesty's Commissioners authorized to act under a Petition for adjudication of Bankruptcy, filed the 21st day of May, 1856. against James Broadbent Herbert and Edward Hindley, of and carrying on business at Liverpool, in the county of Lancaster, Coal Factors, Agents, Dealers and Chapmen, and Copartners, under the style or firm of Herbert and Hindley; will sit on the 17th day of November next, at eleven of the clock in the 'forenoon precisely, at the District Court of Bankruptcy, in Liverpool, in order to make a Dividend of the separate estate and effects of Edward Hindley, one of the said bankrupts; when and where the creditors, who have not already proved their debts, are to come prepared to prove the same or they will be excluded the benefit of the said Dividend.

The information to date about James Broadbent Herbert Junior is:

1. Born about 1838 in Liverpool, Lancashire. There is some doubt about the date because the various census results and the death certificate show variations:

a. 1841 census shows age 7 meaning a birth year of about 1834;

b. 1851 census shows age 16 meaning a birth year of about 1834;

c. 1881 census shows age 40 meaning a birth year of about 1841;

d. death certificate shows age 45 meaning a birth year of about 1838

2. Married on 18 November 1880 in Registry Office Toxteth Liverpool

3. Died on 28 September 1883 in 16 Ullswater St Liverpool

4. His wife’s maiden name was Jane Eliza Richards she

a. Was born on 8 November 1855 in 14 Albert Street West Derby

b. No evidence of her death

5. James Broadbent Junior could not be found in 1861 and 1871 census. Our father/grandfather (Ronald Harold Herbert) said some years ago that his grandfather - possibly James - lived in India for some years. Perhaps he was in India at these census times? If he was born in 1834, as suggested by the census details he would have been about 20 years older than his wife. Is this also an indication that he might have been out of the country? In 1851 he is said to be working in a counting house. In 1881 his occupation is Civil Engineer, so he may well have had a clerical job in India.

The information to date about Harold Herbert, son of James Broadbent Herbert Junior and father of Ronald Harold Herbert is:

1. Born 28 August 1881 in Toxteth Park England

2. Married on 25 July 1908 in Baptist Chapel Egremont

3. Died on 4 June 1951 in 8 Judge's Drive West Derby at age 69

4. His wife’s maiden name was Edith Harrop she

a. Was born 25 January 1888 in Tranmere England

b. Died on 27 July 1950 in 2 Maldwyn Rd Liscard Wallasey at age 62